FOOTBALL 2022 FIFA World Cup

Just on the debate about any player, nobody can be wrong or right because everything is subjective. You can statistically be the best, but there is more to football than that.
 
Wolfie said:
I did watch it in 86, and Argentina were average at best aside from Maradona. They weren't on anyone's radar to win the tournament. I never said they were one of the weaker sides either, they were just an average side. They were nowhere near the Argentina sides of the last decade.

Using his team mates to justify why he is the best isnt that great of an argument you could have used. They are obviously going to say he is best player they have played with because he probably is. They are hardly going to say he isnt. That probably means even less that the stats. The thing we will never know is could he go to a lower side in Spain and turn them into champions. I doubt any modern player would have the balls to go and test himself like Maradona did. I'm actually struggling to think of any player since i have been watching football who has done it tbf.
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The current Argentina side wouldn't have been on anyone's radar to win it without Messi.

"Nowhere near the sides of the last decade" and yet it was a team with arguably their greatest defender of all time.
 
The True King said:
The current Argentina side wouldn't have been on anyone's radar to win it without Messi.

"Nowhere near the sides of the last decade" and yet it was a team with arguably their greatest defender of all time.
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Well, considering you didnt watch them how would you know?
 
Wolfie said:
Well, considering you didnt watch them how would you know?
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Because I can read. Just like you did when pulling up all the Pele stats earlier.

It's clear this is a pointless discussion so lets leave it. Happy to pretend to be a Messi fan boy if it makes you feel better about thinking Maldini is the greatest football player ever. 😂
 
The True King said:
Because I can read. Just like you did when pulling up all the Pele stats earlier.

It's clear this is a pointless discussion so lets leave it. Happy to pretend to be a Messi fan boy if it makes you feel better about thinking Maldini is the greatest football player ever. 😂
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But i'm not proclaiming anything i havent seen unlike you are. You have serious problems. You keep making these weird claims about things i have said that i never did. You just stick with your Messi fanboy obsession.
 
Wolfie said:
But i'm not proclaiming anything i havent seen unlike you are. You have serious problems. You keep making these weird claims about things i have said that i never did. You just stick with your Messi fanboy obsession.
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Shame you had to go and contradict the entire point of your post with that last sentence.
 
pennywisealfie said:
I don't know bro. It's the only way I can imagine someone not thinking Messi is the best is if you don't watch his games. It just seems like people are either a hater or go off what his stats are on FIFA or something.

Wolfie's talk about defenders and goalkeepers not being involved in the discussions has some merit since they are different roles and can't really be compared. Then he goes and says the Euros are harder to win than the World Cup. So I feel like I'm done trying to discuss this with you guys lol.
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Just seen this. Again, this is people saying stuff i never said. What i said was its arguable that the world cup is more competitive than the Euros. Never said anything about it being harder. There are plenty of people who think that about the Euros mainly because there are less filler teams in the Euros. Of course, you cant take form into consideration, but on paper ( and yes, i know football isnt played on paper ) there is a decent argument to say the Euro's are a more evenly contested tournament than the world cup is.

I actually enjoyed this world cup a lot mainly because a lot of the lesser side threw my argument out of the window and we saw quite a few upsets.
 
Wolfie said:
But i'm not proclaiming anything i havent seen unlike you are. You have serious problems. You keep making these weird claims about things i have said that i never did. You just stick with your Messi fanboy obsession.
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Quick test of the logic that I can't judge things I haven't seen...

I didn't see Jim Hines in 1968 or Carl Lewis in 1988 but would I be wrong in saying that Usain Bolt is the greatest ever 100m sprinter?
 
The True King said:
Quick test of the logic that I can't judge things I haven't seen...

I didn't see Jim Hines in 1968 or Carl Lewis in 1988 but would I be wrong in saying that Usain Bolt is the greatest ever 100m sprinter?
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He's the fastest. You cant argue that because its a fact. The best? I simply dont know. I dont follow athletics at all ( i basically watch Football, RL, MMA and Boxing ) so i cant say if its the case or not, but other sprinters could have done things in their day that outweighed what Bolt did in his time despite him being faster. You would probably have to say he is the greatest, but i'm cluess about the achievements of others and if they changed the sport at all beyond being quick, so my opinion probably wouldnt matter.

Its a bit of an odd one to compare because unlike comparing the ability of footballers all a sprinter needs to do is be faster than the bloke next to him. Its a black and white comparison. There arent any variables to take into consideration.
 
Wolfie said:
He's the fastest. You cant argue that because its a fact. The best? I simply dont know. I dont follow athletics at all ( i basically watch Football, RL, MMA and Boxing ) so i cant say if its the case or not, but other sprinters could have done things in their day that outweighed what Bolt did in his time despite him being faster. You would probably have to say he is the greatest, but i'm cluess about the achievements of others and if they changed the sport at all beyond being quick, so my opinion probably wouldnt matter.

Its a bit of an odd one to compare because unlike comparing the ability of footballers all a sprinter needs to do is be faster than the bloke next to him. Its a black and white comparison. There arent any variables to take into consideration.
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Yea stats alone are a bad way to judge how great someone is, especially when comparing against other generations. NRL is the perfect example e.g. I wouldn't compare tries scored in the 6 again era compared to numbere in the 20 years previous.

But even when players overlap its hard to compare on stats. Cronk had a higher win %, was in more grand finals, won more Dally M's, but is he better then Lockyer?
 
scobie said:
One guy that I've always thought was one of the best, but whose name never comes up in these discussions, is Zidane. Man he was some player.
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I think the headbutt and being so late in his career probably takes him out of discussions which is funny given Maradona's handball doesn't diminish his legacy.
 
scobie said:
One guy that I've always thought was one of the best, but whose name never comes up in these discussions, is Zidane. Man he was some player.
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Quality. Big goal in a UCL final too. Definitely amongst the very best midfielders ever.

His performances in the 2006 world cup were on another level. That French side had no business getting to the final but he dragged them all the way.
 
scobie said:
This is the thing for me. Doing it when it really matters.
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Should definitely be taken into consideration. The main GOAT/BOG contenders all showed up in the big games (not every single game, but in one way or another they've stamped their mark on a big occasion)
 
Renegade said:
Should definitely be taken into consideration. The main GOAT/BOG contenders all showed up in the big games (not every single game, but in one way or another they've stamped their mark on a big occasion)
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Iniesta, Drogba, Gerrard, Courtois, Bale, Messi, R9, CR7, Keane, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Cech, Xavi.

All those guys named have a memorable big performance in a big game. Plenty others I am probably forgetting.
 
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